TV - Battlestar Galactica - RM SEASON TWO [Spoiler]

[Hawkeye]

You know I think there is some good proof that Balter is a cylon.... look at this......

Speculation: The Real Baltar?

For Baltar to survive the destruction of Caprica was no small matter, especially considering he was in the wake a nuclear shock wave and that the body of Six that he knew was apparently destroyed in trying to protect his in the events of the Mini-Series.

A nuclear blast's shock wave is substantial (not unlike that from a pyroclastic cloud). The shock wave would contain rocks, glass, metal, and other large debris that would bludgeon, pierce and lacerate human tissue with ease and at terrific speeds (at maximum, 1200 KPH, or 745 MPH). Such a debris-filled shock wave would obliterate Baltar's home and easily annihilate Six's body, which at those speeds would provide essentially no protection to Baltar's. (For comparison, note that, despite his superior strength, the head of the first Leoben Conoy copy encountered was bludgeoned by Commander Adama with a flashlight, and many other Humano-Cylon copies were just as easily shot or killed as easily as a human.)

Even if Baltar survived momentarily from Six's protection, either the remains of his home would have collapsed over him, likely trapping him if not killing him, or he and Six's body would also be carried away by the shock wave for some distance.

Six has had two years to gather plenty of Baltar's genetic material. Could the Baltar on Galactica be now, in fact, a Humano-Cylon?
[edit]
Why a Copy?

Information from RDM indicate that, at the start of season 2, there are eight Cylon operatives that appear in the fleet. A Baltar copy would also had made matters very, very easy for the Cylons in their work to infiltrate the Colonial defenses and would be easily dropped in place to escape or happen to appear on a ship of the nascent Fleet. Such clones may also explain the 'fake' recording from Shelly Godfrey of Baltar compromising Colonial computer systems in a latter Season 1 episode. Perhaps it was the Cylons who doctored what was, in reality, a legitimate recording of a Baltar copy.

One notable question would be why Six have spent so much time talking to Baltar, and then have thrown herself in front of the blast if she'd intended for him to die? If Baltar was already a humano-Cylon, his consciousness from that moment would be thrown into a waking duplicate, already disheveled and scraped, where Baltar would merely think he was blown clear to safety where he could run to escape attacks with other survivors. Also, since Baltar appeared to be key in many Cylon plans, they would want to ensure that Baltar would reach any remaining humans to spy for them, and having only one copy might risk the success of such plans. Further, it is the psyche of Baltar that the Cylons may treasure most; few others in the Colonies may have the level of intelligence, arrogance, and neurosis that Baltar has that could prove as easily exploited. The guise of the great Baltar gives the Cylons a huge natural tactical advantage in that he is well known and allowed access to almost any critical battlestar location. Baltar's slick-as-oil personality aids him with better finesse and stronger charisma than any Humano-Cylon personality yet seen.
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The Baltar-as-Father Argument

Six has stated her desire to have a child with Baltar. Humano-Cylon couplings have failed to result in offspring prior to that point ("The Farm"). If Baltar and Six were both Humano-Cylon, it is likely that offspring would either be impossible or at least exceptionally unlikely. This point gives evidence against the Baltar-as-Cylon theory, but Six has repeatedly made it clear that she considers the hybrid human-cylon baby that Sharon is carrying to be "our" (as she puts it) baby. "Our" may in fact be inclusive of all cylons, which may just include Baltar.

In "Home, Part II", Six indicates that Baltar's and Six's child will be born in the isolation cage built for the Galactica copy of Sharon Valerii. The reality turned out different: The Caprica version of Valerii, pregnant by Helo, now occupies the cage by the end of that episode, and Six indicates that it is in fact Valerii's child that will become Baltar's. This gives some weight to the Baltar-as-Cylon theory since Baltar becoming a father by surrogate circumvents the need for him to do so naturally. While Caprica-Valerii shows that a female Humano-Cylon could conceive, no information is yet available on whether male Humano-Cylons could sire a child with human females. However, earlier in the first season, in "33", Six asked Baltar if he wanted to procreate with her, and at this point she may have meant an actual child of Baltar's. "Home, Part II" occurred much later in the timeline, and it is possible that the Cylons and Number Six had to alter their plans during this time. Number Six did mention in "Home, Part II" that she didn't consider Sharon "worthy" of bearing one of "God's new children" (the Humano-Cylons). Perhaps Sharon was not originally planned to be the first mother of a hybrid baby at all, and Number Six was going to have a child with the (necessarily human) Baltar, but had to shift plans when Boomer became pregnant first.
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Inside Baltar's Head

Baltar's brain scan in "Home, Part II" confirms that the virtual Six that only Baltar can see is not an actual artificial device in his brain. This leaves a number of possibilities, of which the strongest are:

1. Baltar has a device elsewhere in his body. We're not given information on whether all of Baltar's body was scanned, or just his head.
2. A portion of Baltar's body is the "chip" but fashioned in a way by the Cylons that is medically indistinguishable from a regular body part and may also function normally (say, a pituitary gland)
3. Baltar's body is artificial, with his personality (complete with neuroses) placed in a Humano-Cylon construct. While Baltar's psyche itself may not be that of a Cylon, the addition of the virtual Six component compliments the arrangement for the Cylon's purposes.


Possibility #3 is interesting in that, based on Baltar's own research on the Six copy known as Gina, Baltar's personality and guilt would continue to plague him either in Humano-Cylon or human form. But, if Baltar were reconstructed as a Cylon, the virtual Six aids Baltar by being, in effect, the conscience and "guardian angel" she claims to be, keeping his neuroses and guilt over the genocide from driving him completely insane--for now.
[edit]
But Cylons aren't copies of real humans

In a 10/24/05 interview on "The Chase Show" on the SF webcast news site TheFandom.com with veteran "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" actress Chase Masterson, Ron D. Moore is interviewed, remarking that "the idea is not there was one like an original human model that they were copied from". This would suggest either of two possibilities for Baltar: first, that he survived the blast and escaped, or second, that Baltar was a Cylon all along, even on Caprica.

The idea of Baltar being originally a Cylon has problems, however. If Baltar were a Cylon, it would be redundant and unnecessary for Number Six to "choose him" for her mission (unless the Cylons preferred Baltar to remain a "sleeper" throughout his mission to give "plausible deniability" in his mind as well as allow him to do what his personality is likely to do). Furthermore, from a story perspective, the idea of Baltar being a Cylon very much goes against the idea of Baltar as a traitor betraying humanity to the Cylons—as well as the idea of Baltar's relationship with Six being a true human/Cylon pairing. It should be noted, however, that Ron D. Moore's "Gaius Baltar" differs significantly from the "Baltar" of the Original Series. The Baltar of the Original Series was a true turncoat with megalomaniacal tendencies; Gaius, on the other hand, is not power-hungry but is driven by a strong sense of self, albeit to the exclusion and ignorance of the needs of everyone else.

Gaius is often treated by Six as a human--ultimately the only human who will be allowed to survive by the Cylons. But the human models of Cylon also behave with classically human qualities (not all of them perfect or utopian) and seem to see each other in varying emotions (admiration and contempt are prevalent when Six speaks of the pregnant Caprica Valerii). So, at the least, Gaius is treated with no less respect than any other humano-Cylon by his virtual Six. If we assume Gaius is indeed human, Six's interaction with Baltar (given the hostilities of the Cylons) borders on admiration. Although we can't necessarily use Six's emotions as a de facto gauge of Baltar's genuine humanity, it does lend to the mystery.

The storyline possibilities do change somewhat if Baltar has always been a Cylon. Note that Baltar has never spoken of his family or other friends (other than President Adar), strongly suggesting Baltar has been a "loner." If Baltar's parentage (or offspring--he is rather promiscuous) cannot be confirmed (as has been done with Commander Adama, also on the speculated infiltrators list), then the laws of physics (nuclear shock wave damage to human tissue) as well as the laws of procreation (Cylons can't quite procreate as humans do) continue to leave open the possibility that Baltar is model of Cylon, however reduced the odds are now, based on Moore's new information.

[Spawn_Of_Anubis]

Wow that's a lot to read! Give me a minute..................................................................Hmmm...I'm still not convinced.

This post has been Edited By Hawkeye
Spawn Don't waste people time but doing that again

[Hawkeye]

Waaaaa...... Post-ep 214 -Blackmarket

[spoiler]A touching love story.... with modly priced violance in between....

Hate to see Peg's Commander peg it with only five mintues command time... but thats the way of the story.

We seen a whole new side of Apollo ince the blackbird crash.... this episode just brought it out more.....

Were the freck was Starbuck?

Ot-oh Balter... in trouble....[/spoiler]

[River]

BSG doesn't seem to have a "bad" ep at all. Steady quality.

Who is the Commander of Pegasus now?

[seffy]

I have to admit, it's a lot better than season 1.

[Hawkeye]

We find out in two weeks time, When I think [spoiler]Major Adama becomes XO[/spoiler]

[River]

Major hmm. .[spoiler]He's been promoted, demoted, and now going to be promoted again. So Starbuck will stay as the cag(sp?) then?[/spoiler]

My guess is that Tigh will get the job.

[Hawkeye]

Major hmm. .[spoiler]He's been promoted, demoted, and now going to be promoted again. So Starbuck will stay as the cag(sp?) then?[/spoiler]

My guess is that Tigh will get the job.

[spoiler]

THE CAPTAIN'S HAND 217 02.17.06

Lee Adama works alongside the increasingly unstable new commander of the Pegasus when a Raptor scouting party goes missing.[/spoiler]

[River]

Ok,
(Heading to gateworld to read more spoilers)

[Hawkeye]

Spoilers are one Page one of this thread....

[CaptainHaz]

very impressed with all the eps so far from second half of the season, thought the last one was pretty weak tho

[River]

2x15 was boooooooring. I hate those kind of eps that do the "x hours/days earlier" thing. And this was the second BSG in a row

[The UberThor]

Indeed... it was... irritating.

There's no story arc since they finished with kobol. Pegasus was interesting, but the whole... "we're out here mining dirt and getting shot at" bit is wearing thin. What happens now?

[Hawkeye]

Wow... that was surpise ending, seems that these Sci-fi produces are throwing us curve balls all round. Last week was Sg1 this week BSG

May the lords of Kobol look over the soul of poor Billy Keikeya, lost to us this day..... Mind you... the interaction between Dualla and Apollo afterwards shocks me after Billy death, Sick the woofer is sick....

[River]

They are killing time with these kind of eps. The plot isn't moving at all...
Billy was a good kid, too bad